Game opens it's pre-orders

[Gottaa]

They opened it a day or two ago I think, but as I'd already pre-ordered I didn't rush there. Went here and saw the bundles and thought

"Ohhh I'll cancel that and pre-order here"

Then out of interest opened excel
Wii - 179.99
Red Steel - 39.99
Zelda - 39.99
Total at Play(where I did pre-order) 259.97
The bundle cost at Game 259.99

so two pence more ordering a bundle ... arses

Edit: And they don't even have the list of games there to pre-order, just bundles so I couldn't get Wii Play. Though Play still don't have exitetrucks on pre-order. But normally getting the games isn't the problem, it's getting the console.

 

[Entropy]

In all seriousness now, I'm actually quite pissed off about the price point for the Wii within the context of the Xbox 360 pricing structure. The controllers are 33 per cent more expensive than their Microsoft counterparts (granted they do more), and the console itself is about 70 quid less (and for the saving, it's a lot less capable). Both of these price points have disappointed me - I don't think we're seeing the same cost saving touted by Nintendo for purchasing a significantly less powerful console. I could cope, however, with the discrepancies between the marketing spiel and the Wii delivery if we were actually going to save on the games. We're not going to. Nintendo has priced software at exactly the same level as Microsoft releases.

I'm still going to buy a Wii - I think it's the most interesting next gen console - but as we're paying for innovation through increased controller prices, we should expect to save on the games through decreased development time and graphical returns.

 

[Rochdale]

And it sounds like MS are going to drop the 360 price soon too...

 

[Treebeard]

and the console itself is about 70 quid less (and for the saving, it's a lot less capable).

I guess it depends on what you mean by less capable. I'm pretty sure, as with the last generation of consoles and the generation before that and before that, I'll have more fun playing Nintendo games on average than 360 ones. If the games are good, thats all that matters.

 

[Entropy]

I guess it depends on what you mean by less capable. I'm pretty sure, as with the last generation of consoles and the generation before that and before that, I'll have more fun playing Nintendo games on average than 360 ones. If the games are good, thats all that matters.

But that's not really the point is it? It doesn't matter if the games are significantly better, or markedly worse than their 360 counterparts; the point is, you're paying for less technology. The reason the difference in price is so narrow is because Nintendo make a profit on every unit, and Microsoft make a loss. This, coupled with reduced development time for Ninty games suggest that they're milking their market (by charging the same as 360 software) a little bit too much, and certainly more than they said they were going to.

 

[Gottaa]

Surely the price of the games is kinda set by those that make them, or publish them (I thought Nintendo mainly only published the games they made, someone can correct me on that though). And if a game on the Wii is more "fun" than it is on the 360 when exactly should they charge less ? And as consumers would you normally expect to spend less on a product which is better ? The fact MS sell for a loss just shows how desperate they are to flood the market while they can.

And regarding the controller for that price/technology from Nintendo you get:

Wireless
Motion sensing
Tilt sensing
Speaker
Microphone (I think, that might have been pulled, no firm detail I've seen as yet)
Can be used naturally as a gun (costs extra to get those and more crap to need to keep around the console)

Add in the nunchuk and you get:
Another speaker
Basic motion sensing (not clear on this but I'm pretty sure it isn't to the wii-mote level, but seems more than just a tilt sensor, anyone actually know ?)
Rumble


So looking at all that your getting more technology than the other consoles there aren't you ?

If your worried about price, order Wii Play, get a limited red wii-mote + 20 odd mini games + nunchuk (I've still yet to see the nunchuk confirmed in the UK though but it's that everywhere else) and your basically getting a controller for the normal price and 20 mini games for 2 or 3 quid.

Simply put though *if* the Wii games are more fun than other console games why exactly would they charge less for them ? As previously said though I'm getting it cos it's fun, it's a games console after all.

If you buy a game based soley on the amount of development time and it's graphics then your arguement about game prices does hold water. If you buy a game based on how good/fun/enjoyable it is then it doesn't hold water.

Wii though will only know when the Wii is released and wii have played it ourselves. (see how often you can get wii in a sentance, it's much easier to slip in that 360 or PS/3 )

 

[Entropy]

The reason price is an issue is because that was the battlefield that Nintendo chose to fight the war on! They marketed the Wii as a product that, whilst innovative, wouldn't cost consumers anything like the next gen alternative because it was less powerful and not HD compatible. This is why cost is an issue. Nintendo emphasised that games would be cheaper, because development time and costs would be reduced.

To clarify things a little, it's actually very rare to sell a console at a profit, and the Wii will be the exception in this round of next gen consoles. Console manufacturers tend to make their money back on the games (they receive a percentage of every sale (this is one reason why Nintendo did a lot better with the N64 than people suspect; 3 out of 4 PSX games were pirated, whilst Nintendo stuck to outdated cart technology)). So this is what we have then:

1) Nintendo decided to fight a price war. This is consistent with their marketing plan to open up additional gaming demographics (touch generations on the DS etc).
2) Nintendo emphasised that they would not compete on hardware with Microsoft and Sony. They focused their development on innovation, rather than improving the graphical capabilities of the console. This renders their console much cheaper, and they intimated that a big cost saving would be passed onto the consumer.
3) Nintendo have released a pricing structure with the Wii costed moderately beneath the Xbox 360. Certainly not as low as a lot of people expected/hoped.
4) Nintendo charge significantly more for the controllers. The much vaunted innovation that was to save consumers significant amounts of money, is actually still passed on as a cost.
5) Nintendo charge the same amount for the games. The reduction in development costs next to other next gen platform games is not passed onto consumers - Nintendo instead just use the margin to line their pockets.

So we're left with a product that, whilst initially touted as a much cheaper, innovative alternative, is actually only slightly less than an Xbox 360 with hard drive. Whether this is an issue or not is up to the consumers. I suspect most people won't have a problem, because the Wii does look more _fun_. But the point (which I've so laboriously and repeatedly made!) is that this is not what Nintendo promised us!

To conclude then, I suspect Nintendo have launched with this pricing structure because of Sony manufacturing problems. They recognise that they'll still probably be able to sell out because the market won't be saturated with 3 brands this Christmas, and when the PS3 comes along, they'll still have the margins to reduce unit costs which will further incentivise consumer spending for additional demographic development. At the very least, even if they don't reduce costs, the extra short term revenue stream will give them monies which they'll be able to spend on pushing the console onto a wider variety of people.

So in the end, what Nintendo are doing makes good business sense. It's simple supply and demand. Perversely, it's actually a bit refreshing that their marketing and business analyst departments are getting something right at last (they consistently fucked up on the N64 and gamecube). But it's Microsoft and Sony that are supposed to be the big bad globalised wolves; Nintendo are supposed to be the nice little piggies. And it's pretty clear that they had the margins to be nice, and could have stuck with their pre launch cost intimations. It's eroded my loyalty to the brang, and confirmed a certain clandestine purchase for my DS lite.

 

[Gottaa]

My Wii Preorder:
Wii - 179.99
Red Steel - 39.99
Zelda - 39.99
Wii Play - 39.99 (comes with extra controller)
Total : 299.96

360 if I was to order one:
Premium Console: 279.99
Second controller: 29.99 (got wireless so it's more like for like)
Wireless Adaptor: 54.99 (like for like again, Wii is wireless out the box though)
Call of Duty 3: 39.99 (after a 10 pound reduction)
Marvel Ultimate Alliance: 39.99 (after a 10 pound reduction)
Total: 439.95

I picked those two games as they are also out on the Wii, I ignored the fact the Wii controllers can both be used as guns, and the fact the extra games you get with Wii sports and Wii play. And you still save 139.99 on the Wii.

I fail to see why all that would irk you, it's cheaper, the controllers do far more, you wouldn't see games cheaper as yet because ... it's not even out yet, I'm sure once it's out we'll see price cuts, but that's something I've always seen on any new console. Getting it as it comes out you know you're in effect paying a little more for that.

Edit: Infact look at the PS/3 games you can pre-order now, all at 49.99 (the seemingly normal 360 game price before discount), so the Wii is cheaper (pre store discounts)

 

[Entropy]

Well it depends how you present the figures. I couldn't find anywhere selling an xbox 360 game at the "RRP" of 49.99, so that 10 quid reduction looks pretty permanent. Also, yes, Microsoft are milking its consumer base with a 55 quid wireless adaptor, but if you wanted to actually devolve everything down to similar machines, you'd have to replicate the 20 gigs that an xbox with hard drive comes with for games/music storage etc and add on a dvd player. It's not comparing "like for like" if you just add on an expensive peripheral that pumps up the order price!

Basically, as I said before, an xbox 360 is around 70 quid more expensive, and the games are the same price. That pisses me off, because Nintendo claimed they would be more competitive in both departments. I understand why they've done it, but naturally a desire to line their pockets with cash isn't a great way of making me happy. I understand why you're so excited about the Wii, but you've got to accept that Nintendo has backtracked, and is charging more for its product than it claimed it was going to do so. Just read any of their pre-launch intimations if you don't believe me.

 

[Gottaa]

360 was launched 2nd December last year though yeah ? I'm sure in erm ... 10 months from the Wii's release it will be cheaper and shops will have there games reduced. If you don't want to pay the prices of things now you only have to wait I'd guess between 3 to 10 months for a price drop and internet shops having them at a reduced cost. As I said if you want something the day it's released you will be paying top dollar.

As I remember it Nintendo said it was going to be cheaper than other next gen consoles, game production would be quicker than other next gen console, and it was going to bring the focus back on "fun over graphics". And to my mind it has still done all that, it is cheaper, has a large list of release titles and certain looks more fun.

The peripheral stuff though, from dvd players, music playing, photo showing and the like are just gimicks though on any console that I've ever had, you go "Ohhhh", you fiddle, you use it maybe once and then you use it for what it was made ... playing games. For example
PS/2 - Crappiest dvd player evah, couldn't even get lip-syncing right
X-box - music player .... once you ignored the fact the noise of the x-box powered on was often enough to deafen you

And I'm sure when it comes out

Wii Photo - Looks cool, fun, but the camera will still be plugged into the PC cos there it can be viewed, edited, e-mailed on, put on-line to embarass or to get print outs.

As far as backtracking, if you listen to the hype prior and to some extent during E3 you might have imagined it would be cheaper, but as far as I'm concerned 300 quid gets me a whole lot more than it would with other next gen consoles, so I don't feel they did.

The only thing in the whole Nintendo thing that has made me go "WTF" was the news that the Wii won't support dvd playback out the box, but it you buy something else it will do .... which just made me think "something like a dvd player perhaps ?" We got out silent multi-region cdr/dvdr/mp3 player dvd player for 24 quid from tesco's why would I want a crappier equivelant in a console (but I'll admit the PS/2 dvd player left me feeling jaded about such things). Though I suppose for a kid maybe it's a cheaper way of parents having a dvd player in there room.

P.S Adding the wi-fi adaptor was to me very practical as we are wi-fi here and I don't want cables all over the shop for the chinchilla's and/or Rosie the puppy to munch on, infact when I first heard the 360's "standard" wi-fi adaptor was to become optional it started the ball rolling on my dislike of the 360.

Anway now to go drink more cold and flu and take some more neurofen. Sodding Flu

 

[Gottaa]

I'll add:

360 Wireless controller - 29.99
Wii-mote - 29.99

It's the same price, so while not more expensive if you were expecting it to be cheaper than other next gen controllers you would feel cheated.