The others
- Thread starter Zed
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Goaty
Full Member
My name is........
.................Slim shady
not really.
Valygar Corthala.
Male ranger.
Half elf.
Lawful Good
Not as much detail as shel but...
22 years old.
Tall and skinny with long dark hair.
Lonely elf seeks party for fun and adventure, must group with GHP and do lots of KB.
GHP = Good honest people
KB = Kobold bashing
.................Slim shady
not really.
Valygar Corthala.
Male ranger.
Half elf.
Lawful Good
Not as much detail as shel but...
22 years old.
Tall and skinny with long dark hair.
Lonely elf seeks party for fun and adventure, must group with GHP and do lots of KB.
GHP = Good honest people
KB = Kobold bashing
Zeus
Full Member
Tieger Wolfbane
Level 4, 16 year old Shapeshifter Druid.
Thrown out of his home village for being a Werewolf, Tieger was forced to live amongst the druids. He has trained with them, and is able to control his mutation. While he once considered it a problem, he now considers it to be a major advantage, since it gives him increased Speed, Strength and Life (ooc: just guessing at these really, doing this while i dl the char generator)
Since he joined the party a few months ago, he has been they're primary scout and explorer, and is having the time of his life.
(ooc: ok, i'm going off what the BG2 manual says here, but am i right in thinking i cant wear armour at all? how about helm, bracers, shield, etc? and for a weapon, it says i can use a club, but can i use a mace as well? its basically just a metal club after all....)
Level 4, 16 year old Shapeshifter Druid.
Thrown out of his home village for being a Werewolf, Tieger was forced to live amongst the druids. He has trained with them, and is able to control his mutation. While he once considered it a problem, he now considers it to be a major advantage, since it gives him increased Speed, Strength and Life (ooc: just guessing at these really, doing this while i dl the char generator
)Since he joined the party a few months ago, he has been they're primary scout and explorer, and is having the time of his life.
(ooc: ok, i'm going off what the BG2 manual says here, but am i right in thinking i cant wear armour at all? how about helm, bracers, shield, etc? and for a weapon, it says i can use a club, but can i use a mace as well? its basically just a metal club after all....)
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Sheleph
Full Member
Anything goes as Zerran says in his campaign. What the Dungeon Master's Guide to werecreatures, and Monster Manual entry on them say is :
Being a werewolf is, as you'd imagine, pretty powerful. It gives you a certain edge! Because of this, it's equivalent to being about 3 levels higher than you actually are . . . a 4th level werewolf fighter is considered a 7th level character when sussing out how hard it is, or how many Experience Points (XP) you need to gain a level.
In 3rd Edition D&D this is factord as an Equivalent Character Level modifier, and werewolf is +3.
What does this mean? It means if we're starting out at 4th level, you'd have one Class level as a Druid, and a notional +3 levels for being a werewolf, i.e. you'd only be a 1st level character with shapeshifter twiddly bits.
You'd start at 6 000 XP and need to get to 10 000 XP to level up (the same as a 4th level character wanting to get to 5th). Also Zerran would have to okay it, as by the letter of the rules you should be 2nd level before becoming a werewolf, as you should play, then get bitten. But as it's balanced (you're snacky as a werewolf, but have big penalties both as a werewolf and as a 4th level character with only the benefits of 1 level in a character class) it'd be fair to start out like this, if you wanted to. The big worry is that although you're immune to normal attacks in wolf or werewolf (half man/half wolf) form, you'd only have the Hit Points of a 1st level character, and for a level 4 dungeon that puts you on the low side.
I was going to play a Half-Celestial Paladin, which can give the big perks of +20 to starting attributes, feathered wings and flight, low light vision, immunity to all acid damage, immunity to all electricity/lightning damage, immunity to all cold damage, immunity to all disease, +4 on all saves vs Poison, cast light at will, and gain 15 divine spells as you gain levels (from cures to holy word and resurrection!) but it has an ECL of +3 also, and starting as a front line fighter at a little over 10 Hit Points in a 4th level dungeon just struck me as silly
What does a werewolf do for you?
Creature Type/Race : Medium sized Shapechange [ Lycanthrope, Werewolf ]
Speed : 50ft as a wolf or hybrid (half wolf/half man)
AC : +2 Natural Armour (adds to regular AC and flat-footed AC, but not to AC vs touch attacks)
Attacks : unarmed strike +0 melee; bite +3 melee as wolf or hybrid
Damage : unarmed strike 1d3 subdual; bite 1d6+1
Face/Reach : 5ft by 5ft / 5 ft (i.e. the same as a human)
Special Attacks : Trip (if you hit with a bite attack, you get to make a trip attack as a free action), curse of lycanthropy (Su) (you can pass it on in your bite as a disease), Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex) (you can communicate with normal and dire wolves and get +4 on changing their attitudes)
Special Qualities : Alternate Form (Su) (can shift into wolf form as though using a polymorph self spell, though gear does not change, as a standard action. On changing form, regain Hit Points as though resting for a whole day, yippee!), Damage Reduction 15/Silver (Ex) (unless attacked by Silver or magical weapons, or natural attacks of a creature with Damage Reduction Silver or better, like another werewolf, you ignore the first 15 damage of the physical attacks. Magical effects still hurt you big time. But effectively normal weapons that do 15 or less damage to you cause no damage. And it's uncommon at 4th level to do more than 15 damage with a regular weapon!)
Saves : gain +2 racial bonus to Fortitude and Will saves
Abilities : unchanged in human form. In wolf or hybrid form gain Str +2, Dex +4 and Con +4 (increasing Str, Dex and Con modifiers by +1, +2 and +2, and giving +1 to hit/damage, +2 to AC and Initiative and ranged attacks, +2 Hit Points, +2 to Reflex and Fortitude Saving Throws)
Skills : +4 racial bonus to Search, Spot, Listen in human form, +8 in wolf or hybrid. Can learn Control Shape as a class skill to get a chance of resisting involuntary changes and making voluntary changes from one form to another). +4 Wilderness Lore checks when tracking with scent
Feats : in animal or hybrid form, gain Improved Initiative, Blind-Fight, Weapon Finesse (bite)
Bad things : Alignment always changes to Chaotic Evil, so you'd loose all Druid abilities. A wereboar (only boar and human forms, no half form) and a weretiger (human, tiger, hybrid forms) are always Neutral, and a werebear (human and bear form only, no half form) is always Lawful Good
It may well be best to think about being a non-evil lycanthrope, otherwise party harmony will be a major hassle, as the adventure looks set up for us to be good guys battling evil, and the party is Good or Neutral alignments, and a Paladin won't be happy with a Chaotic Evil lycanthrope!
I dunno what the ECL of other Shapeshifters are, but judging for CR's I'd guess weretiger is +5, wereboar +3, werebear +5.
Maybe you could strive to be a weretiger . . . hugely messy, much the same stats as a werewolf but has Blind-Fight, Power Attack and Multi-Attack as feats, 3 attacks a round with natural weapons, +5 Natural Armour as a hybrid, attacks of Pounce (Ex), Improved Grab (Ex), Rake (Ex), shed loads of +Skills, and huge attribute adjustments of Str +12 (!) Dex +4, Con +6 (so Reflex and Fortitude saves improves by +2 and +3).
Overall, as you can imagine, it's like being about 5 levels higher than you would otherwise be (gaining the extra feats, damage reduction, +22 to abilities for +6 melee attack and +6 melee/thrown weapon damage, +2 and +3 to saves, +63 to Skills, then +4 bonuses to 3 skills) so you could have been bitten at Druid level 1, stay as Druid level 1, and when you get enough Experience Points to be level 6 (15 000, 9 000 more than you currently'd have) you'd have enough XP to add an ECL +5 Shapechanger template.
Hope that helps you see what lycanthropy's like . . . think it over then hassle Zerran
Being a werewolf is, as you'd imagine, pretty powerful. It gives you a certain edge! Because of this, it's equivalent to being about 3 levels higher than you actually are . . . a 4th level werewolf fighter is considered a 7th level character when sussing out how hard it is, or how many Experience Points (XP) you need to gain a level.
In 3rd Edition D&D this is factord as an Equivalent Character Level modifier, and werewolf is +3.
What does this mean? It means if we're starting out at 4th level, you'd have one Class level as a Druid, and a notional +3 levels for being a werewolf, i.e. you'd only be a 1st level character with shapeshifter twiddly bits.
You'd start at 6 000 XP and need to get to 10 000 XP to level up (the same as a 4th level character wanting to get to 5th). Also Zerran would have to okay it, as by the letter of the rules you should be 2nd level before becoming a werewolf, as you should play, then get bitten. But as it's balanced (you're snacky as a werewolf, but have big penalties both as a werewolf and as a 4th level character with only the benefits of 1 level in a character class) it'd be fair to start out like this, if you wanted to. The big worry is that although you're immune to normal attacks in wolf or werewolf (half man/half wolf) form, you'd only have the Hit Points of a 1st level character, and for a level 4 dungeon that puts you on the low side.
I was going to play a Half-Celestial Paladin, which can give the big perks of +20 to starting attributes, feathered wings and flight, low light vision, immunity to all acid damage, immunity to all electricity/lightning damage, immunity to all cold damage, immunity to all disease, +4 on all saves vs Poison, cast light at will, and gain 15 divine spells as you gain levels (from cures to holy word and resurrection!) but it has an ECL of +3 also, and starting as a front line fighter at a little over 10 Hit Points in a 4th level dungeon just struck me as silly
What does a werewolf do for you?
Creature Type/Race : Medium sized Shapechange [ Lycanthrope, Werewolf ]
Speed : 50ft as a wolf or hybrid (half wolf/half man)
AC : +2 Natural Armour (adds to regular AC and flat-footed AC, but not to AC vs touch attacks)
Attacks : unarmed strike +0 melee; bite +3 melee as wolf or hybrid
Damage : unarmed strike 1d3 subdual; bite 1d6+1
Face/Reach : 5ft by 5ft / 5 ft (i.e. the same as a human)
Special Attacks : Trip (if you hit with a bite attack, you get to make a trip attack as a free action), curse of lycanthropy (Su) (you can pass it on in your bite as a disease), Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex) (you can communicate with normal and dire wolves and get +4 on changing their attitudes)
Special Qualities : Alternate Form (Su) (can shift into wolf form as though using a polymorph self spell, though gear does not change, as a standard action. On changing form, regain Hit Points as though resting for a whole day, yippee!), Damage Reduction 15/Silver (Ex) (unless attacked by Silver or magical weapons, or natural attacks of a creature with Damage Reduction Silver or better, like another werewolf, you ignore the first 15 damage of the physical attacks. Magical effects still hurt you big time. But effectively normal weapons that do 15 or less damage to you cause no damage. And it's uncommon at 4th level to do more than 15 damage with a regular weapon!)
Saves : gain +2 racial bonus to Fortitude and Will saves
Abilities : unchanged in human form. In wolf or hybrid form gain Str +2, Dex +4 and Con +4 (increasing Str, Dex and Con modifiers by +1, +2 and +2, and giving +1 to hit/damage, +2 to AC and Initiative and ranged attacks, +2 Hit Points, +2 to Reflex and Fortitude Saving Throws)
Skills : +4 racial bonus to Search, Spot, Listen in human form, +8 in wolf or hybrid. Can learn Control Shape as a class skill to get a chance of resisting involuntary changes and making voluntary changes from one form to another). +4 Wilderness Lore checks when tracking with scent
Feats : in animal or hybrid form, gain Improved Initiative, Blind-Fight, Weapon Finesse (bite)
Bad things : Alignment always changes to Chaotic Evil, so you'd loose all Druid abilities. A wereboar (only boar and human forms, no half form) and a weretiger (human, tiger, hybrid forms) are always Neutral, and a werebear (human and bear form only, no half form) is always Lawful Good
It may well be best to think about being a non-evil lycanthrope, otherwise party harmony will be a major hassle, as the adventure looks set up for us to be good guys battling evil, and the party is Good or Neutral alignments, and a Paladin won't be happy with a Chaotic Evil lycanthrope!
I dunno what the ECL of other Shapeshifters are, but judging for CR's I'd guess weretiger is +5, wereboar +3, werebear +5.
Maybe you could strive to be a weretiger . . . hugely messy, much the same stats as a werewolf but has Blind-Fight, Power Attack and Multi-Attack as feats, 3 attacks a round with natural weapons, +5 Natural Armour as a hybrid, attacks of Pounce (Ex), Improved Grab (Ex), Rake (Ex), shed loads of +Skills, and huge attribute adjustments of Str +12 (!) Dex +4, Con +6 (so Reflex and Fortitude saves improves by +2 and +3).
Overall, as you can imagine, it's like being about 5 levels higher than you would otherwise be (gaining the extra feats, damage reduction, +22 to abilities for +6 melee attack and +6 melee/thrown weapon damage, +2 and +3 to saves, +63 to Skills, then +4 bonuses to 3 skills) so you could have been bitten at Druid level 1, stay as Druid level 1, and when you get enough Experience Points to be level 6 (15 000, 9 000 more than you currently'd have) you'd have enough XP to add an ECL +5 Shapechanger template.
Hope that helps you see what lycanthropy's like . . . think it over then hassle Zerran
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Zeus
Full Member
hmm.... thanx for that, i had NO idea it was so complicated!! I was going off what the BG2 book says.... The Were-Tiger sounds good.
Heres what i'm thinking, since i want to have been a shapeshifter for a while:
OK, so i'm only lvl 1 in terms of hit points. However, i CAN turn into a tiger when i want to... although maybe not a full strength tiger until i reach the required lvl?? ie. all stats only increase by half the amount they should? To me, this would seem reasonable. Not sure just how much of an unfair advantage i'd have over everyone though... it still comes down to what Zed says, but after reading you post Sheleph, i think i'll go for the Were-tiger as detailed above.
Heres what i'm thinking, since i want to have been a shapeshifter for a while:
OK, so i'm only lvl 1 in terms of hit points. However, i CAN turn into a tiger when i want to... although maybe not a full strength tiger until i reach the required lvl?? ie. all stats only increase by half the amount they should? To me, this would seem reasonable. Not sure just how much of an unfair advantage i'd have over everyone though... it still comes down to what Zed says, but after reading you post Sheleph, i think i'll go for the Were-tiger as detailed above.
Zed
Rogue Chimp
EEK
Players always want to be 'ard'
okay ill review the char carefully and see what i think. But as shel says you need to take a level hit .. personally id have gone a hengiokai (okay cant spell it) Druid .. you get a -1 ecl and can change into a wolf or hybrid.
Right .. im gonna be draconian here : NO!! the basic reason for saying no is this:
Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special
----- ------------ ---- ---- ---- -------
1 0 +2 +0 +2 Nature sense,
Animal companion
2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Woodland stride
3 +2 +3 +1 +3 Trackless step
4 +3 +4 +1 +4 Resist nature's lure
5 +3 +4 +1 +4 Wild shape (1/day)
At lvl 5 you get wild shape which as you progess gets rather powefull!! (Dire Black Bear or elemental anyone??) TBH as a were creature immune to anything but silver weapons makes you a lot more powerful than you really should be .. i mean you run through the dungeon and own everything ...
Wild Shape: At 5th level, a druid gains the spell-like ability to polymorph self into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal) and back again once per day. Unlike the standard use of the spell, however, the druid may only adopt one form. As stated in the spell description, the druid regains hit points as if he or she has rested for a day. The druid does not risk the standard penalty for being disoriented while in the wild shape.
The druid can use this ability more times per day at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, as noted. In addition, the druid gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level, a Tiny animal at 11th level, and a Huge animal at 15th level. At 12th level or higher, she can take the form of a dire animal.
At 16th level or higher, the druid may use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium-size, or Large air, earth, fire, or water elemental once per day. The druid gains all the elemental's special abilities. At 18th level, the druid can do this three times per day.
This has been enhanced in Masters of the Wild (gonna go look for it at lunch time!!) and is better.
Soo Id rather not have you as a were creature yet, however get bitten by one in the near future and ill not deny it .. hope that doesnt screw you too hard!!
The boss
Players always want to be 'ard'
okay ill review the char carefully and see what i think. But as shel says you need to take a level hit .. personally id have gone a hengiokai (okay cant spell it) Druid .. you get a -1 ecl and can change into a wolf or hybrid.
Right .. im gonna be draconian here : NO!! the basic reason for saying no is this:
Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special
----- ------------ ---- ---- ---- -------
1 0 +2 +0 +2 Nature sense,
Animal companion
2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Woodland stride
3 +2 +3 +1 +3 Trackless step
4 +3 +4 +1 +4 Resist nature's lure
5 +3 +4 +1 +4 Wild shape (1/day)
At lvl 5 you get wild shape which as you progess gets rather powefull!! (Dire Black Bear or elemental anyone??) TBH as a were creature immune to anything but silver weapons makes you a lot more powerful than you really should be .. i mean you run through the dungeon and own everything ...
Wild Shape: At 5th level, a druid gains the spell-like ability to polymorph self into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal) and back again once per day. Unlike the standard use of the spell, however, the druid may only adopt one form. As stated in the spell description, the druid regains hit points as if he or she has rested for a day. The druid does not risk the standard penalty for being disoriented while in the wild shape.
The druid can use this ability more times per day at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, as noted. In addition, the druid gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level, a Tiny animal at 11th level, and a Huge animal at 15th level. At 12th level or higher, she can take the form of a dire animal.
At 16th level or higher, the druid may use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium-size, or Large air, earth, fire, or water elemental once per day. The druid gains all the elemental's special abilities. At 18th level, the druid can do this three times per day.
This has been enhanced in Masters of the Wild (gonna go look for it at lunch time!!) and is better.
Soo Id rather not have you as a were creature yet, however get bitten by one in the near future and ill not deny it .. hope that doesnt screw you too hard!!
The boss
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Sheleph
Full Member
*is muddled*
Khaelan, Fael's character sheet has him as a level 4 Druid using a dagger, staff, sling
Turn 3's post describes him as a Ranger . . .
. . . just wanted to get it right, 'cause a Ranger's hard as nails and a Druid isn't necessarily rocking in combat, and a Paladin needs to know who to babysit
Khaelan, Fael's character sheet has him as a level 4 Druid using a dagger, staff, sling
Turn 3's post describes him as a Ranger . . .
. . . just wanted to get it right, 'cause a Ranger's hard as nails and a Druid isn't necessarily rocking in combat, and a Paladin needs to know who to babysit
Sheleph
Full Member
Okay, is this how it looks, now, or am I muddled?
Sheleph
Lady Helena Atrades
Human female LG level 2 Paladin, level 2 Cleric
17 years old
Wears : Full plate mail and tower shield
Uses : "Kitara's Oath" longsword +1, warhammer, daggers, lance
Animal companion : Alexander, her heavy war horse
Requiel
Gilead
Elven male LN level 4 Monk
64 years old
Wears : Layered clothes
Uses : Unarmed, byrglaif
Goaty
Valygar Corthala
Half-elf male LG level 4 Ranger
22 years old
Wears : Padded armour, small steel shield
Uses : longbow +1, longsword +1, rapier
Cuthrose
Ian Mclaren
Human male LG level 4 Fighter
19 years old
Wears : Chain shirt and buckler shield
Uses : Shortsword, longbow
Khaelan
Fael
Human male level 4 Druid
24 years old
Wears : Leather armour, elven cloak and boots
Uses : Dagger, staff, sling
Animal companion : Huth, his badger
Cullhaven
Cull
Human female level 4 Barbarian
19 years old
Wears : Chainmail, large steel shield
Uses : Battleaxe, handaxe, throwing axe
Zeus
Tieger Wolfbane
male level 4 Druid
16 years old
Wears :
Uses :
Sheleph
Lady Helena Atrades
Human female LG level 2 Paladin, level 2 Cleric
17 years old
Wears : Full plate mail and tower shield
Uses : "Kitara's Oath" longsword +1, warhammer, daggers, lance
Animal companion : Alexander, her heavy war horse
Requiel
Gilead
Elven male LN level 4 Monk
64 years old
Wears : Layered clothes
Uses : Unarmed, byrglaif
Goaty
Valygar Corthala
Half-elf male LG level 4 Ranger
22 years old
Wears : Padded armour, small steel shield
Uses : longbow +1, longsword +1, rapier
Cuthrose
Ian Mclaren
Human male LG level 4 Fighter
19 years old
Wears : Chain shirt and buckler shield
Uses : Shortsword, longbow
Khaelan
Fael
Human male level 4 Druid
24 years old
Wears : Leather armour, elven cloak and boots
Uses : Dagger, staff, sling
Animal companion : Huth, his badger
Cullhaven
Cull
Human female level 4 Barbarian
19 years old
Wears : Chainmail, large steel shield
Uses : Battleaxe, handaxe, throwing axe
Zeus
Tieger Wolfbane
male level 4 Druid
16 years old
Wears :
Uses :