Trading

[Pictelf]

The issue of trading has came up again. So I think I should clarify a few points. In the original Diablo there wasnt actually that many items and it was a reasonable demand that your clan chars was to be started from scratch and to never trade items with anyone outside the clan.

In DII the range of items is big enough that you could MF all your hours away and never find that item you want, also trading is seen as an integral part of the game due to the sheer amount of items. It would be fairly draconian of me to say do not trade outside clan ever, especially with the few folk that do play regularily. I do say be as circumspect as you can and if you even get a whiff of possibility that it is duped dont trade.

As an aside I do consider buying items on Ebay to be completely out of order, you would be aswell buying someones acct off them. If you cant trade within the game, tough. Most of you are easily skilled enough to manage to game round whatever items you have. I would like to think that members of this clan have the strength of will and purpose not to resort to such a blatant step outside the ethos of the game/gaming community.

 

[SomeBloke]

Hi hi ... some agreement and some disagreement. And let's face it a forum is for posting such.

Firstly, trade....

Of course people should be allowed to trade. If a person does not want to trade outside of CUK, fine no problem. Hats off to them if they can find all they need.

There is no reason to stop trading outside of CUK. You find items to a certain value, but invariably you will find things you or other CUK'ers dont need.

So you trade them for items you do need of an equal (or if you are lucky, higher lol) value. You will never know, unless you go in a game and it dissapears, whether you traded for a dupe or not.

If it does turn out to be a dupe, you have not in any way been "cheating" for the time you used the item. You just lost out on the items you traded for it.

I doubt you could ban trading, you would just drive members "underground" and it would lead to a lot problems.


Buying Items....

I have never itended buying items in general. However, since last season ladder I considered buying an enigma armour. I wasn't hiding the fact and discussed it with several members.

The only reason for this is because I wanted one (obviously), and because I would never, ever, find even one of the JAH/BER needed, let alone both.

So, I waited until the new ladder season, made a hammerdin on softcore, and bought an engim armour. I was quite open about it, even to Taians who proceeded to take the piss

I could have muttered something about several miraculous finds, but I am not a liar. I am a grown up, and these games are afterall hobbies.

People invest time and money on all hobbies. Plenty of people have played with me since I got the engima, and I do not believe my integrity as a CUK member or general player of D2 has been compromised in any way.

If anyone else feels different then let me know .

At the same time, this is not cheating either. OK so if it is a duped item it will dissapear and all that happens is theat I, personally, will lose out. It doesnt bother me as I will have had fun using it, and will have had fun playing with you folks.

I have never had any intention of buying anything other than the engima, but this is besides the point. This is a democracy we live in, buying this item has not affected anyone other than me, I am still the same person, and play with exactly the same integrity as before.

People will just go underground and shady if they think they will be vilified for buying an item - the only difference is I am quite open about the fact.


So ....

I dont want to be kicked out of CUK, because I enjoy playing with you all. I would hope that people would still keep me on f lists and play games outside of clan games but that is not the point.

The point is, if a person is going to trade, or is going to buy an item, you can't stop them. All you can do is make them lie about where they got items from. Surely this is worse than allowing a person to trade or buy an item that MIGHT be a dupe. Worst comes to the worst, that person's items will dissapear.

( Note however, if my enigma does dissapear I need some new elite armour )

SB

 

[Legs]

for the record i cant think of an online game where i havent known at least 1 person to buy out of game to enhance thier gameplay in said game.

wether be the current games coin or leet weapon or just pre made characters.

imho SB no harm done.

in th origanal diablo u coul dupe items with ease .. i dont think this is teh case in D2 and blizzard have taken mesuers to keep these items out of game in teh long run.

 

[Agravaine]

I disagree totally with Picty.

Buying an item/character with real cash is, to me, no different from being given an item by a guild mate.

You didn't earn it, you didn't trade for it within the game so what's the difference?

People may bitch that you're lazy or going against the spirit of the game and they're entitled to their opinion. At the end of the day though, it's a game and you're merely enhancing your enjoyment of it without harming anyone.

Buying items/characters/accounts isn't cheating, PK'ing or griefing so it should be up the individual.

 

[Pictelf]

Actually if a guild mate gave you it, you did earn it through friendship and/or gaming. I wouldnt give someone an item if a, I didnt like them or unless I felt I owed them something. Maybe they saved my hide ingame.

In a competative way (and even though its a co-op game there is that streak in all of us) not managing to find/trade or buy the item ingame and using money to buy your way is cheating.

Despite that I have pm'd SB, as you say Legs no real harm done and since this hasnt ever came up before I thought I better clarify it.

Its not that difficult in DII to build a good char, find good enough items and have a pleasant and enjoyable gaming experience. The folk who play DII are generally quite generous and will help out other therefore there is no need to have to go to the extreme of buying items/chars.

So as I said before trade sensibly but no buying stuff on ebay

 

[Taians]

Got some spare items if anyone wants them

Tals Armour
Viper
Shaft
Occy
DF
GF
WF

I'll start the bidding at 20 pounds for armours and 10 for all else

 

[Legs]

how about tai u give me the armour and ill owe ya the 20

 

[Pictelf]

I think T would prefer offers of a more personal kind Legs

 

[Elsevier]

Don't encourage him picty, it'll only make him excitable.

 

[McHoff H. McChrist]

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you here too, Picty.

I consider buying items a bit of a lame cop-out (rather doubt I'd ever do it. Mainly because I'm a pikey student, but ah well ), but perfectly acceptable. I've know other clan members to do so in D2, and since other clan members do it in other games (eg. UO, at least selling), it seems a bit hypocritical. I know I'm just one voice, but if someone wants to put time spent earning money into getting an item, instead of time spent playing the game, then that's their choice. Not a completely black-and-white issue, since it does make things a bit unfair for the younger/poorer players, but since you're not really in direct competition with people, it doesn't kill the gameplay like it might in other games.

As for trading in-game, well, that's a large part of the game for a lot of people, and there's no way to stop people doing it. Yes, it's risky (and boy, do I know that? ), but thankfully, since Blizzard do delete the items, you'll find out eventually, and hopefully learn the lesson to be more careful in the future. Like not buying a named Grandfather socketed with an Ist. *coughs*

 

[Yardos]

last i checked diablo elua its agaisnt there rules to sell an item on ebay (i.e u making rl profit from there liecences without paying them there due percentage) personly in a game i know there can be dupes i dont buy any items at all and only trade with guild members
so to get back to point as we are ant cheating obeying rule type guild buying items/charas on ebay is agaisnt the ethous we joined under

tbh atm if sold my various game accounts i could make around 5k in real monies but i wont as it goes agaisnt the princeables i stand for and i expect of the peeps of this guild to stand for too was why i joined it in the first place and yes i have sold accounts to peeps in this guild or given away to them but the only monies i took covered part of the cost of buying the game in the first place

so i for one stand with picty on this issue

 

[Agravaine]

If buying and selling in real life is against Blizzard rules then fair enough.

As for CUK, I thought our principles were anti-cheat, anti-PK and anti-griefing. Where does it say that the buying and selling of accounts/characters/items in real life is prohibited?

Outside of those founding principles, which are what many people joined for, what gives you the right to order someone to act according to your own principles?

As Rorsch says, plenty of people have sold accounts/chars/items for real cash without problem. I believe our beloved leader has sold UO items so I fail to see how you can tell D2 players not to buy/sell stuff let alone enforce it.

 

[McHoff H. McChrist]

He might have a point there, though. Blizzard's said they don't want people selling items/accounts (mainly since they don't get a cut of it ), whereas I'#ve got a feeling that they don't care in UO/EQ etc.

IIRC, one thing that CUK "stands for" is adhering to game-makers' wishes, which is where it all becomes slightly hazy.

Well, personally, I don't have a problem with it, and wont report/tell people not to do it. If it comes down to a vote, I'll vote to let it go, since it's morally defensible, and I try to do what I think is right, not just what I'm told. ("Ooh, you rebel, you.")
Plus it's too hot to care about it. >.<

 

[Agravaine]

Oh I agree m8. If Blizzard say it's a no no then CUK should frown on it.

I just don't like people trying to force their own morals on others when it's not covered in the CUK ethos.

 

[Yardos]

ant cheat to me is obey the rules involed in the game (eq/uo dont approve of ebaying but costs more to try and shut it down than its worth) guess i'll hav e to read the elua again to find this one out

edit had a quick look

all objects charators and names are the sololy owned by blizzard inc , mite be slighty wrong but that to me means u cant sell um without there permission there ebay items charas accounts are illegal there for cheating the system therefore not for a cuker to do

 

[MarkS]

If blizzard owns my characters then one of them can level my merc for me

 

[Rochdale]

Buying and selling on Ebay are two different things. If you're selling you can at least make sure the items aren't duped, stolen or otherwise bad. If you're buying you can't be sure. Still, many people do buy things, usually game accounts. I guess the difference with game accounts is they can't be duped. They can be stolen but it's doubtful someone would sell a stolen account because the transaction would be traceable and the account recoverable, it's much more likely they would strip it of items and sell those instead.

The problem with D2 is that it's so dodgy. There are people that dupe, scam, hack accounts and do just about anything to screw people over. I'm sure that goes double when real money is involved. It's got to be the most hackable game out there. If you're sure the guy you're buying it off is genuine then thats one thing but how can you be sure? Did the guy sell lots of other stuff? Were the things he was selling D2 related or just random? On top of that as chimps above have said, if Blizzard say it's against the rules then we as a community that are supposed to follow the rules should go along with that in this case.

It's one of those things that differs with every game and every situation, but teh picteh knows more about D2 than I do so I would go with her decision on this

 

[Rowan]

Runes are the most duped items on the realms at this time, the trouble is that you cannot get "rid" of them as the clevers bastards dupe the runes BELOW those they want, and then "perm" them by using a cube to give them a "legit" item code
The whole thing about Ebaying is that 99% of the things are runed,and the other 1% botted. According to Blizzard the Ber/Jah/Cham/Zod runes should only fall at a rate of 1 per month on the realms. So that means 1 legit armour a MONTH, and the season is JUST one month old.
I don't agree with trading outside the clan myself, and DO manage on things that WE find, but when MarkS made a trade (to the vilification of Taians, as he traded low) I just said "any trade where both parties are happy is a fair trade" I didn't go off on a rant about trading for dupes.

Blizzard HAVE attempted to get Ebay to stop trading Diablo things, only to have a disclaimer put into the selling "All properties remain the property of Blizzard Entertainment, you are paying a finders fee" sort of ****.
The thing is, if you look, there are a LOT of trades by the same people, they HAVE to be duping OR botting, and I don't know which is worse TBH. BUT I DO KNOW both are cheating!

 

[Aydindril]

I'll add my tuppence worth...

Firstly, as SB said forums are a way of discussing things openly...

Personally I think buying what in essence is an electronic 'bit' of information, for pure hard earned cash, is so very very sad...

As Rowan said it is so very easy to dupe the runes needed, to get legit ones...so I would suspect most of the ones on ebay are Duped, and that suspicion is enough not to do it...

Most of us have traded for 'that odd missing bit', but tbh, in this new season I haven't even bothered to do even that as I cannot now really 'trust' the people not to have duped/hacked it....So yes at Lvl 53 in HC, I'm still wearing an armour I found in Act1 Normal, off rakanishu....

CUK is anti-cheat/anti-hack, and there are enough of us playing to 'find' the relative items....and if 8, 9 or even 10 of us, takes 11 months to find just 1 JAR, then that is how the game was meant to be played...not within the 1st month buying the item off ebay...

Hell I could buy the entire HC Necro Trang-Ouls set, but what would be the point, it would probably be 'hacked'/'duped', and even if it wasn't...buying it isn't to my mind an acceptable option...

Okay if SB wants to buy the item, I'll not stop him...and good on him for being open about it...but I would ask for the 'item' not to be worn in CUK Games...because that really does give him an unfair advantage ...

 

[Cerberus]