Is WotLK Too Easy.
- Thread starter Chick
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Zeus
Full Member
and again you come back to the 'hardcore raiders are only interested in gear!' arguement gottaa. it makes no sense. Raiders want gear so that they can kill more stuff - if i was still in my naxx gear, i wouldnt be tough enough to tank icemaw. thats how progression is meant to work. like how in first person shooters you start out with a crap pistol, and work your way up to planetary annihilators. you get the gear that you need to make the next bit possible.
the people that are only interested in gear are the ones that only do heroic 5mans, but want to get ulduar level gear for doing so. its like saying 'well i've only played the first level of quake. but i've played it 50 times. can i get a bfg now please? i need it to kill these enemies that die to single pistol blasts'. theres no need for it, and it takes away what little challenge was left in northrend heroics (which are about as difficult as TBC normals, imo.).
colliseum might keep raiders 'busy' (you know, for the 1 night a week it takes to clear the place), but it wont keep them happy for very long. thats why so many of them are hoping that Aion is a decent game. I honestly think that blizzard releasing 3.2 was the best thing that couldve happened for Aion's preorder figures
the people that are only interested in gear are the ones that only do heroic 5mans, but want to get ulduar level gear for doing so. its like saying 'well i've only played the first level of quake. but i've played it 50 times. can i get a bfg now please? i need it to kill these enemies that die to single pistol blasts'. theres no need for it, and it takes away what little challenge was left in northrend heroics (which are about as difficult as TBC normals, imo.).
colliseum might keep raiders 'busy' (you know, for the 1 night a week it takes to clear the place), but it wont keep them happy for very long. thats why so many of them are hoping that Aion is a decent game. I honestly think that blizzard releasing 3.2 was the best thing that couldve happened for Aion's preorder figures
Sometimes I just like saying hardcore raiders in a negative way and seeing who reacts in the same way usually the same people say casual raiders in a negative way and feel they are allowed to use that negative slant because they are further into the game than others, therefore they know more about it.
Dunno, as you both point out I don't play WoW at all, I was simply interested in the mechanic of the dungeon being talked about unlocking a new boss mob each week, then somehow it got pulled from me asking a simple question into this, hey ho
Dunno, as you both point out I don't play WoW at all, I was simply interested in the mechanic of the dungeon being talked about unlocking a new boss mob each week, then somehow it got pulled from me asking a simple question into this, hey ho
Zeus
Full Member
"hardcore raiders would be happy there for a fair while if the loot was good enough"
"the loot would have to be good enough"
"it'll keep hardcore raiders busy as long as the loot was good enough"
those are simple questions, are they?
incidently, i'm not a hardcore raider. if i was i'd have moved to a better guild. i wouldnt ignore raid nights to go play supreme commander. i'd be farming the new heroic (and the daily heroic) every day.
i just dont see why you have to take every opportunity you can to try and slag off hardcore raiders. ./shrug.
"the loot would have to be good enough"
"it'll keep hardcore raiders busy as long as the loot was good enough"
those are simple questions, are they?
incidently, i'm not a hardcore raider. if i was i'd have moved to a better guild. i wouldnt ignore raid nights to go play supreme commander. i'd be farming the new heroic (and the daily heroic) every day.
i just dont see why you have to take every opportunity you can to try and slag off hardcore raiders. ./shrug.
Janie
Full Member
The AOE fest, everything sticks to the tank, no CC is easily the worst aspect of WotLK. I actually found places like UK, The Nexus, DTK etc harder when levelling up than on Heroic (mainly because you'd more than likely get a Deathknight tank, who had never tanked before!)
I read a preview on that (i'm sure you have too) and the person liked it because it was extremely polished, looked good and played well.....however his big gripe was way to unoriginal and didn't bring any new idea's or do anything original with the genre in terms of gameplay.
Zeus
Full Member
heh, aye. by the time you get to 80, the instances arnt much harder (i'll agree that heroic HoL is harder than normal HoL, but heroic Nexus is probably easier than normal HoL, imo. which just seems wrong.).
a freind of mine hit 80 a few days ago, so i'm going through the old heroics again with her healing. first boss in HoS did 44k damage to me over the entire fight... so in like just over a minute, i had to be healed for 10k damage to keep me alive
i couldve done that myself with enraged regen i think... i am of course massively overgeared for heroics, but meh - it made up for the utter fail of 2 dps killing themselves and the healer at the first shatter.aye, pretty much the impression i got. what it does, it does well (much like wow when it came out), but doesnt really bring much thats entirely new (again, much like wow when it came out). That said, the flying combat might be quite nice, depends on how well its done. hoping to give the beta thingy this weekend a go, if i can get it working in time. (7gb to download, so got a copy off a freind at work today, but his is a steam version, while mine's a non-steam version, so dunno how easy it'll be to get working).
Janie
Full Member
a freind of mine hit 80 a few days ago, so i'm going through the old heroics again with her healing. first boss in HoS did 44k damage to me over the entire fight... so in like just over a minute, i had to be healed for 10k damage to keep me alive
Sounds about right! The 3 boss in Gun'drak is the worst (The one that tries to turn into a Rhino) - I healed a very ordinary (in term of gear) Druid Tank with just Earth Shield and 1 shot of Gift of the Naaru (which probably wasn't needed) - I spent most of the battle earth shocking him to stop him changing - not that he's any harder in rhino form!
Oh for harder heroics, what was the name of that one they added with the Sunwell island? That was a real tough one even on non heroic, so much CC needed, and all the bosses were a challenge!
Edit : Magisters Terrace.
Zeus
Full Member
i had been hoping that TotC heroic would be similar to magisters terrace... but given that i managed it with just 2 wipes (and those were just because we didnt know what was going on, not because it was actually hard) in a pug, about 3 hrs after it was released (ie. when the servers were still crap, and before anyone had done it before), i've kinda given up on that idea
Chick
Cartwheel RIGHT
It Is notably harder than the others.
It's just the others are piss easy.
Then again, Blizz have stated over and over again they want base level content to be easier / accessible to all (note: Not completable by any old mouth breather) and it's teh Achievements & Hardmodes that make things difficult.
I take it everyone complaining that heroics are too easy has the Glory of the Hero Meta-Achievement ?
It's just the others are piss easy.
Then again, Blizz have stated over and over again they want base level content to be easier / accessible to all (note: Not completable by any old mouth breather) and it's teh Achievements & Hardmodes that make things difficult.
I take it everyone complaining that heroics are too easy has the Glory of the Hero Meta-Achievement ?
Janie
Full Member
Who cares? Most of those sub achievements needed are a cake walk, some you'll even get without trying for them. It's an extremely lazy way of 'adding' harder content. You could quite happy make the heroics harder and more challenging by not taking a tank, 4 or 3 personing it, doing it naked, tying your hands behind your back and playing it with your toes, completing it with the Stoodent in the group - that's not extra content either - just because you get some meaningless achievement for doing one of blizzards 'harder' gameplay idea's doesn't make it a good idea! The base level of Heroics is currently a joke, I think TBC got it just about right mostly, I don't see why they have been dumbed down this time round.
The game shouldn't be so easy to the point people are having to do something different to increase the challenge (and remove the boredom!) - it'd be like Roger Federer playing in a suit of armour, Barcelona signing Dakota Fanning as there new Goalkeeper, Tiger Woods using suger lumps instead of golf balls and Lewis Hamilton pulling a caravan on his F1 car.
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Chick
Cartwheel RIGHT
So you have got it - because it's easy right?
I used to agree with your theory here, but recently have started getting more into the spirit of the hardmode/achievement game and it's complelling. The main problem though is motivation. You try something half a dozen times and fail, so knowing you have an easier failback option, its all too easy to just knock the boss down the easy way and be on your way. Orbituary took us 6 hours over 2 raid lockouts where we did nothing else and Firefighter... well. Firefighter is still proving to be tricky. 3 weeks in now and only slowly making progress.
I've managed to get in with a pretty dedicated bunch though who follow me through fire and death week after week to try to make the game as hard as possible for ourselves.
The reason it's being dumbed down is simple economics. Why expend a huge amount of time and money developing content that only 1-5% of your playerbase will ever see?
Naxx was a joke/mistake. Sarth was a test i think, of the HM concept. Ulduar is perfectly poised imo, and my vote is still out on the Colosseum at the moment, and will be until the hardmodes are unlocked and available.
I used to agree with your theory here, but recently have started getting more into the spirit of the hardmode/achievement game and it's complelling. The main problem though is motivation. You try something half a dozen times and fail, so knowing you have an easier failback option, its all too easy to just knock the boss down the easy way and be on your way. Orbituary took us 6 hours over 2 raid lockouts where we did nothing else and Firefighter... well. Firefighter is still proving to be tricky. 3 weeks in now and only slowly making progress.
I've managed to get in with a pretty dedicated bunch though who follow me through fire and death week after week to try to make the game as hard as possible for ourselves.
The reason it's being dumbed down is simple economics. Why expend a huge amount of time and money developing content that only 1-5% of your playerbase will ever see?
Naxx was a joke/mistake. Sarth was a test i think, of the HM concept. Ulduar is perfectly poised imo, and my vote is still out on the Colosseum at the moment, and will be until the hardmodes are unlocked and available.
Janie
Full Member
No. For a couple of reasons, firstly i'd have to go into the Occulas again which is without a shadow of a doubt the worst instance ever in WOW and secondly I didn't really care about achievements at all.
Your arguement fails simply because there are tons of easy achievements that only require time that simply aren't fun to me - I don't have all the cooking achievements for example, is it because they are hard to get? No, it's because I don't find the timesink that would be required to get them fun, same with exploration achievements, hard? No you simply have to uncover the map, fun also no. Achievements are an extremely dull way of grinding for something ultimately without value.
Janie
Full Member
If only Warhammer had thought of this. Got an E-mail from them a couple of days ago pretty much begging me to reactivate my account, lol.
I had the same one, someone at work plays it and says it's improved alot, I asked about all the stuff I grew to dislike and it was the same, only improvement is the servers are actually populated now because they have reduced the number of servers enough.
If you are after fun though Janie, give the SOE Free Realms one a spin, you can't really go wrong as to try it out is free, and only if you really like it and want the other classes do you pay
If you are after fun though Janie, give the SOE Free Realms one a spin, you can't really go wrong as to try it out is free, and only if you really like it and want the other classes do you pay
Janie
Full Member
I've just read a few things about it, not really my sort of thing I think - alot of it seems to be aimed at a younger age group (gets compared to Toontown alot) and a seems to be a sort of non game (the Sims type thing) MMO.
Merly
Full Member
I'm hoping that the learning curve gets a lot better than this because everyone is steamrollering the content and then it's just a race for the achievements which is bollocks.
Where is the hours of wiping on Illidan and stocking up on resistance shit for mother shiraz and stuff. the whole lot has now been dumbed down and it's like hmmmm....
Where is the hours of wiping on Illidan and stocking up on resistance shit for mother shiraz and stuff. the whole lot has now been dumbed down and it's like hmmmm....